They’ve been Type cast. Melora Hardin stars in The Bold Type, a drama about a glossy magazine that’s so addictive, it should come with its own FDA warning. The actress plays Jacqueline, an editor-in-chief based loosely on publishing empress Joanna Coles… who happens to be the show’s executive producer. They are also dear friends, because power couples come in so many forms.

How have they helped shape one of the most compelling shows on cable TV? And what can their friendship teach us about success and creative trust? We asked them about it… and a lot more because, well, they know stuff.

Were you friends before The Bold Type?
JOANNA COLES: Well, here’s the weird thing. I was obsessed with Melora. She played Tammy on Transparent and she was brilliant, but also she had my haircut. And I remember watching the show and thinking, “Who is this very brilliant, very sexy lesbian with my haircut? I must know her.” And then lo and behold, you put an idea out into the universe, and the next thing you know, Melora Hardin is coming to see me in New York to do research for The Bold Type… Then I came to LA to see Melora, and it turns out that her favorite thing to do is to get naked and go to a spa. So we got very naked and went to a hot spring and swam around for several hours. And after that, we were bonded for life, really.

MELORA HARDIN: I had read about Joanna, obviously… I remember watching some videos of panels she’d done. And I just thought she was just fantastic. So witty and funny, smart as a whip, and when I read The Bold Type pilot, I just loved it. I was like, “Oh, this woman? Love her. This character who’s kind of based on this woman? Love her.”

What have you learned from the other person, career-wise?
MELORA: What’s funny about that is, the character inspired by Joanna’s life is so good at her job! Both in real life and on The Bold Type, she challenges her employees to do good work. She’s also kind, and fair, and reasonable—but she knows you can be the best, and she wants you to be the best. And all of that is true of Joanna, which makes it very easy to trust her and value her opinions, both in work and in friendship.

JOANNA: I’ve learned a lot from Melora, too. She has a very mystical and holistic and spiritual view of the world, a very “West Coast” way of looking at things. As a British person, I find that so different from anything I grew up with. And I find Melora to be incredibly optimistic. She’s a really engaged friend, and a really thoughtful friend… She knows how to include you in big conversations, but also the day-to-day pieces of her life… Like, she’ll be trying something on in a store, and she’ll FaceTime me and ask, “Should I buy this?!”

MELORA: I also learned that in the first season, we should have written a part for Bradley Cooper.

JOANNA: That was the first mistake.

What’s it like watching a show about editors and celebrities while being editors and celebrities?
JOANNA: What’s interesting about The Bold Type is how magazines still hold a real fascination for people wanting to start in journalism… There’s something really nice and glorious about having to write a magazine article in-depth, and really research it and think about it. The final, finished package of a magazine was a wonderful gift that came through the mail, or you would pick it up on the newsstand and it would feel like a gift in your hands. And Bold Type has shown us how much people still love that world of magazines, and the beautiful conceit of what a print magazine is. I’m sorry that we’re losing that because I think it had great value.

How do you handle professional disagreements as personal friends?
MELORA: I feel like even when we are kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum, we just talk about it. And we can see each other’s point of view, I think, even if we don’t always agree. But even when we can’t merge our thoughts together, there’s a way to stand separately and respect one another’s choice. There’s a lot of mutual respect, and also because we come from different worlds, we welcome the other’s perspective.

JOANNA: We obviously really like each other as friends, but it’s also easy to handle differences when you trust the other person’s expertise. I think Melora is such a professional, and so experienced in her craft. She really nails things in a way that we couldn’t have dreamed of when we started filming the show… I feel like we have this incredibly rich friendship, which came from a very useful place of coming together on a work endeavor that we both love.

The Bold Type is ending after 5 seasons. How do you think about what’s next for you if you’re already doing something that’s a total dream job?
JOANNA: Oh, I’ll take this one first. I think you always want to be thinking about what’s next, and be building the stepping stones to that “next thing.” You’re always going from one thing to another thing, which might feel like a sideways or diagonal move—hopefully diagonally forward. But even if it’s not, you’re already laying the groundwork for the future. You always want a sense of forward momentum. And you don’t want to be stuck in something that is just the same all the time. You want to be reaching out and figuring out how you can improve your skills, and how you can use the skills you’ve got to open your world, assuming you want a bigger world! So stepping stones are very important.

MELORA: And this is where Joanna and I are very different because I’m completely opposite of that, which is that I go absolutely on instinct… And I actually hate the question, “What’s next for you?” Because I’m always like, “Whatever comes next is next!” But I am similar to Joanna in that I go towards the things that excite me; the things that land in my being in a way that challenges me… Joanna is more methodical. I’m much more about trying to sit in the feelings of things.

JOANNA: Also, spend some time thinking about what actually gives you energy.

Besides espresso.
JOANNA: Right. I think one of the things that we’re not very good at doing, especially as women, is thinking about the other people and things that give us energy, because those are the people and things you want to be around… And that’s how I live my life… I also think you want to keep notes on it, because what gives you energy changes… I’m a big journaler, because I think it’s keeping data on yourself. And you can learn a lot about yourself if you can look back on the time you’ve spent with people, and where your energy level is after you’ve spent time with them. And I think you can often end up realizing you’re spending time with people who deplete you, or depress you, or make you feel anxious. And that’s not necessarily a good long-term strategy for, you know, life.

MELORA: Absolutely. Things ebb and flow. I think we’re a bit addicted to things always flowing, and as women, I think we have a certain amount of anxiety around just resting or catching our breath. But it’s so important! You know, there was actually a grieving time for me around The Bold Type ending, because it was a long project that I truly loved… And I actually went to stay with Joanna for a week after we finished filming, to help me carve out those breaths! To help give me a buffer to see what might come next. I think friendships are very important for those times of transition, because it’s uncomfortable to not have a “next” right away. But it’s also so good for you!

Media and Hollywood both feed on big names, but they also only exist because of teamwork. How do you balance building a professional reputation as an individual, and also being a real collaborator?
JOANNA: I think you’ll always be frustrated if your first thought is, “Does everyone know this is me?” Instead, I would ask, “What can I bring to this table, 150%?” Bring all your skill sets, all your energy, all your talent and know-how, and everything else that you have. And then you need to get good at asking for help, and asking for information… And then you might want to reflect on something I heard from an incredible life coach. He said, “You can’t know your contribution. Other people will tell you what your contribution is. That’s not up to you. It’s not up to any of us.”

MELORA: I love that. [For example], maybe I’m on a movie set playing an incredible character. Or maybe I’m on a movie set, but what really makes it work is that I’m empowering the people I work with, and that fuels all of our work and our creative expression.

JOANNA: Exactly! The only thing you have control over is bringing the best of yourself to everything that you do. And then whatever you can’t do, you ask for help, and you include others… The only other thing I’d say about that is, you don’t want to be a credit junkie. You don’t always want to be elbowing everybody else out of the way, because that makes you an asshole. And nobody wants to work with an asshole. Generosity is a really great rule of thumb, regardless of whether it’s work or friendship. Generosity is the key to so much.